Sorry for the tease (it IS a sexy image don'tchathink!?), but this isn't a cap or an obscura or even a sexy story. BUT I do need your help to define a difference in my writing as I want to be clear with what I'm putting out. You see, I've fallen into a trap where I believe several of my obscuras are long enough to be put out as stories all on their own. But how long does a story have to be to warrant being published without images? How long until it's worth putting up on fictionmnia? If you've followed me long enough, you know I've tried to venture into long form writing for awhile now, and this is a step that will help me.
So what I'm talking about is story length. I look at length in two ways. Word count is the easiest way to count, but almost all of my TG reading comes from fictionmania and there I look at the story as a file length when saved as a text file. For instance, one of my recent favorite stories is "The Perfect Match" by RH Music and it was near the perfect length for me. It had an introduction, a story arc, several short 'asides' that worked as character development, and a good finale that wrapped everything up. Longer stories than this need to be broken up into chapters. Shorter stories... well that's what we're here to talk about.
I know on fictionmania, I don't really love very short stories. You see, "The Perfect Match" is listed as 148.7 K. 25 K is about as small as I'll go unless the story is recommended by someone directly or its by an author that I adore. To put that into a word count scale, "The Perfect Match" has 27,286 words (including it's title, the author's name, a short synopsis, and "The End". I read somewhere that if you take your word count and divide it by 390, you'll get your rough page count if published in a standard book format. That would put "The Perfect Match" at 69 pages (heh... 69). I wouldn't even pick up a book at the store that was only 69 pages as that's FAR to short to be a book. But, here we are... what are the differences.
Now caps are almost impossible to define by word count, text size, or book length. With my style they fit into the number of images you have. Obscuras should feel like a cap so they should be short and sweet. An easy read. But whats the difference between an Obscurra and a short story? Whats the difference between a short story and a story? Whats the difference between a story and a book?
I'm getting into this for both a historical context and for projects moving forward. You see, I'm working on a story that feels like it could be very long. 300 K to 500 K when done. I'm currently at the 90 K mark and it's not anywhere near half finished. Then yesterday I went to write out a cap that turned out to long and changed to an obscura that.... well I haven't edited it yet, but it's 100 K. Over 17,000 words.
So, let's look back at some history of mine as I've been known to be wordy before. Let's see where these stack up.
Early in my capping I had trouble with fitting all the words I needed on a single panel. This was different than seeing six images that I wanted to use and stretching the story out to fit those panels. My first multi panel cap was "Always Read The Fine Print" but that was about there being a lot of images I wanted to use and not the story being too long. My first cap that was too much story for the image I had was "He Didn't Know...". Look at that cap and tell me I didn't need to trim that story WAY down. It looks ridiculous. But, it's still only 1,119 words. 5.9 K. A little under 3 pages in a book.
The first cap I looked at as a "very long" story was "Girly Girl". It came out soon after "He Didn't Know..." It ended up being 7 panels and the first three of those had only vague images that didn't really belong to the story. I liked the story portion, but hated the cap execution. That being said, it was 4,859 words. 26.1 K. 12.4 pages.
I know I wrote some longer caps, but I started dividing them up between more images which made it work far better. My next step was "Getting Clean" a couple years later. I wrote a far to long story for the single image I had. Instead of pushing it all in though, I pared it WAY down to make a cap and included what I then called the 'short story' version in the post. That 'short story' was 1,503 words. 7.7 K. 3.9 pages.
A year after that, I started my other blog. At the time I called it Caitlyn's Musings as it was where I would mull over writing a story. There was the suggestion that I use my cap "Language Barrier" as the impetus of a longer story and I worked on it for several months. But "worked on it" doesn't mean writing... I wrote part of an outline, worked on characters and their histories and did everything EXCEPT write the story out. Eventually I gave up that idea and later turned Caitlyn's Musings into Calvin's Musings and it's where I write about my life (a kind of journal or diary).
The next step along my writing path was "Happiness Found". Like "Getting Clean" I wrote a longer story for a cap that wouldn't work in that format. Instead of stuffing it in or finding multiple panels images, I pared it down to a cap form and then let the longer 'Short Story' form be published on the Caitlyn's Musings blog (this was before changing it over to Calvin's Musings). But again, for a long cap, this was still a very short story. 3,058 words. 15.7 K. About 8 pages.
A few months after "Happiness Found" I wrote "My Roll In Their Threesome" (by the way, that's a typo that I just saw six and a half years later... it should be 'My ROLE In their Threesome'! DOH!). Anyway, I shared it with Simone and she liked it enough to suggest I post it to Fictionmania. To a cap artist to me, especially back in 2013, that was mighty high praise to hear. Authors posted their works on Fictionmania, not little cap artists like me. I was destined to work in photoshop, where authors just played in your mind's eye. So... I promptly formatted into pure text and published my first story at Fictionmnia. The odd thing is that this is the shortest of my 'long' caps. I didn't even have to pare it down to fit into the cap format... I just made the text a little smaller than normal. It ended up at 1,348 words. 7.2 K. 3.5 pages.
Feeling good about myself, I went back and and posted "Happiness Found" to fictionmania as well, but before I started scouring my works and maybe publishing "Girly Girl", and "Getting Clean" I took a longer look at the story length. And then I looked at other stories of that general length. And then it hit me... these were exactly the types of stories that I avoided on fictionmania. They just weren't long enough. They were fine for a cap, but they felt cut off. They barely had an introduction, had very little story arc, almost no real character development, and the finale was almost always a quickie sex scene.
Not wanting to build up a new audience that just looked at me as a bad writer, I left Fictionmania. Those stories are still there, but I haven't added anything older or newer.
Jump ahead by three years and we come upon "Manipulative Step-mother". An obscura that got away from me and ended up as 3,086 words. 15.9 K. A touch under 8 pages.
Later that year I wrote "Role Model". This was another obscura that got away from me as I just kept writing and writing and writing. I'll freely admit that I ADORE this story. It's not just the image, although it really sets the tone, it's the good guy helping a friend. It's the small steps lead to almost full transition. It's the hints at sex then full on forced sex. It's the loving attitude. I just felt it was too long for the obscura format. But looking back now... well its only 3,169 words. 16.5 K. A touch over 8 pages.
"Kneel" came up next about a year later. 3,381 words. 17.3 K. 8.7 pages.
For awhile I thought those three were my new normal 'long' short story. Around 3000 words. Every dozen or so obscuras would turn into one of these and it would be fun to indulge. Then indulging got a new view with "Taking Care Of My Guys". This was very late 2017, so a little over 2 years ago now. "Taking Care Of My Guys" ended up at 9,094 words. 46.7 K. 23.3 pages.
That was the length of a story I'd read on Fictionmania. Now at this point I'd been writing TG fiction for seven years. My "Long" stories were all 1/3 this size and this was the only story that I thought might be worthy of the Fictionmania treatment. And after posting the other drabbles in comparison to this, I decided to not post it there. I'd let my profile continue to gather dust and just try and forget being an author.
Just a few months later, however, I posted "Shared Too Much". This was an unusual story/obscura as it was a recanting of a story that came to me while I was exploring New Orleans. It was told from my perspective with just a few of those "What if I actually bought that mask" or "what if I had panties on when my pants got pulled down" situations turning from fiction in my mind to fiction on the page. While it was unique in it's origin, it still clocked in at 6,518 words. 33.8 K. 16.7 pages. This is that in between size... depending on the synopsis and the rating, I'd probably read it. But if I was in the mood for something more character driven or explicit, I may skip by it.
My very next posting was "Dirty Work" at 3,063 words. 16.1 K. 7.9 pages.
A few months later I wrote "Weekend Wife" that came in at 4,479 words. 23.5 K. 11.5 pages.
The very next post was "Id" that was 4,754 words. 24.6 K. 12.2 pages.
My next post was "Temp" that came in at 5,984 words. 30.8 K. 12.8 pages.
Two posts later I wrote "Submit" that was 6,560 words long. 34.6 K. 16.8 pages.
Two posts later I posted "Maid To Be His Woman" I allowed myself three days to write this one as I really liked where the story was going and didn't want to rush it. That extra work made it my longest work, surpassing "Taking Care Of My Guys" by over 2,500 words. The end tally was 11,615 words. 60.5 K. Almost 30 pages.
My next post was "Coming Home" with 6,138 words. 31.8 K. 15.7 pages.
I posted "Taking Care Of My Guys" on December 18, 2017. I posted "Coming Home" on January 19, 2019. So in 7 years of writing TG fiction I had never exceeded 3,500 words. In the next thirteen months I wrote 9 stories that averaged almost 6,500 words. It seems almost unfortunate that at that point I started to get back more into Caps. When I did pepper some obscuras in, they were the standard short ones, barely getting to 1,000 words.
It wasn't until September of 2019 that I returned to long(er) form writing and wrote "Crashing Down" that had 5,788 words. 30.7 K. 14.8 pages.
A few months later, in late December 2019 I started working on my next project. This one started out as an obscura, but I let it run and run and run. When I saw that it would be another one of those long form ones, I stopped writing, pulled back, and read it over while considering the whole story idea I had begun with. I decided to abandon the whole obscura idea and start to run with making it a VERY long form story. I didn't really ever do a word count like this before, but my longest to date is "Maid To Be His Woman" at 11.5 thousand words and I figured I'd be at least doubling that. When I started writing with that in mind, without letting myself skip all the fun details, I realized I could easily eclipse any story I'd written before by 4 or 5 times. I've worked on and off with this story since then but I think about it often. If all the quick fun ideas end up in it with as much detail as I'd like, I might still be looking at this with too small of a lens. I might have a 500 K story on my hands.
Now, that's ambitious and I don't want to scare myself away. I'm just going to keep writing and let my reader let me know how I'm doing. Yes, I have a specific reader who is going through this as I add pieces and letting me know how it works. She's even catching my typos! I don't have a title for this story yet, as I'm not quite sure how the story will turn out. It involves two people getting transformed and matched up at a club/resort/clinic. So, if I talk about the 'matched up' story or the 'club' or 'resort' or 'clinic' story, that's this one. Right now, taking all of my notes out and the entire section that I wrote, but will re-write later, the story is over 90 K. And again, it's nowhere near the halfway mark. Hell, the transformation has barely begun!
And then came yesterday. I saw an image and fell in love. I had already written an obscura (Bottom Ballerina Bitch) and made a cap (A Study In Contrasts), so I didn't exactly start writing this one early in the day. But it became clear pretty quickly that this could go on and on and on. So, knowing how much I was getting into longer pieces, I just let it all flow out of me. I wrote around my laundry. I wrote around lunch and dinner. I wrote around everything. My normal bedtime on a quiet weekend at home is between midnight and 2 AM. My head hit my pillow at thirty after five AM.
And while I still have to read what I wrote, edit it, and maybe add a little more buzz and pizzazz to the ending, it currently stands at 19,973 words. 105 K. 51.2 pages. It's even longer than the story I've been writing and re-writing for 6 weeks. And with all those glorious, scene setting,descriptive, world building words... I have a single image to use. I'm not sure what to do with this. I'm not sure my blog makes the best reading platform.
So... back to the original question. How do I classify my creations.
- Caps are easy as there is no limit to their length. They are what they are.
- Short obscuras, say between a dozen and 1,500 words, are easy to classify as obscuras.
- Obscuras that are between 1,500 and 3,000 words, especially those with just one image are... what?
- Obscuras between 3,000 and 12,000 words.... my current collection of 14 that qualify in this area... are these more short stories? Should they be published at Fictionmania to get a more story driven audience?
- And these last two long ones... should they even be published here at all?
I'm thinking that once it crosses that 3,000 word mark it's a short story. Say, up to 7,000 words. Above 7,000 are the shorter side of regular stories. And 9,000 or more qualifies as a story and really probably shouldn't be posted here at all. Of course if I ever put my work up at Fictionmania and not here, I'll still post a notice here. Kind of like when I call attention to posts on my other blog. I'll include all the behind the scenes, ideas, and frustrations with writing while Fictionmania will have just the story.
So, what do you think? Do you think those numbers and classifications work? Does it help you at all to have them classified at all? Let me know so that I can decide at the very least what to do with this next much longer story and my opus when it's finished.
Dear Caitlyn, I feel a bit under-qualified to be posting any advice in regards to writing, since I have only written captions and have never posted a full "story" on FM or anywhere else. But as a fan of your creative writings, may I offer my two cents? I don't know how to judge writings by their KB file size, only by word count since I've written serious academic articles that are like 8,000 words before, and that is quite enough to tell a good story without boring the reader. I have done a lot of writing before, some published, but have never published TG writings.
ReplyDeleteAs a reader, however, I consider any obscura between 1,500-3,000 words (with an image) as being worth of Fictionmania SWI (Story-with-Images) classification. Why? Because they are evocative. The image and the 3,000 words together stimulate the imagination. And that's what FM stories with images are supposed to do. So, by all means, post them! As for the longer writings, the ones between 3,000-12,000 words, I think they definitely should be published as stories on FM. Many FM readers out there (at least, as I gather from reading the comments) are looking for medium-length stories, not necessarily lengthy thrillers with lots of description. They want an enjoyable, bite-size experience, which is right up the alley for this length of story. And you have written very good stories in this regard, in my opinion.
Long stories are rather awkward to post on a caption blog. Even with an image or two, they are not quite captions, and not quite treated as literature (since a caption blog tends to be a quick-hit type of place). TG caption audiences may be turned off by walls of text, in ways that FictionMania fans are not. All the same, FM fans don't seem to mind if you post images to accompany stories.
As for your longest writings that you mentioned, wow, I am amazed at how prolific you are, Caitlyn! Those definitely belong in FM, not on a caption site. You will get so much more response in FM because you can index those stories with a lot of keywords, and people love to do full-text searches (I am a reader like that myself). So for the reading crowd, well, I would say, go for the gold and put it out there on FictionMania or TG Storytime. You are such a talented writer that you shouldn't pigeon-hole yourself in the sort of "click-it-and-read-it-in-a-minute" crowd. Some of your obscuras are true stories that deserve a wider audience.
Forgive me if I presume too much, but Caitlyn, you did ask! I hope that as a fellow writer some of these thoughts may help you!
Karen,
DeleteI appreciate your two cents. It’s exactly this type of perspective that I want! I can’t disagree when you say that the 1,500 to 3,000-word obscuras are evocative. After all, I write them, enjoy them, and publish them here for others to read. But I think that slightly more than bite sized story is more akin to a longish cap than a short story. While writing this post up, I read through a lot of the comments on these posts and Smitty and I went back and forth a bit on a similar topic. The gist here is that caps tend to skim over a lot of information. They don’t spell it out like even a short story does. I think that’s my stumbling block on posting it to story sites… at that size I just don’t see them as stories.
Again, I can’t emphasize enough that I don’t disregard them completely. I think they’re entertaining and there’s a reason that I write a lot in that size. I just think that they read just fine here. I’ve often read those very short stories on fiction mania as the fact that it’s a story with an image and has a good synopsis is enough to pull me in. But far more often than not, I get disappointed with them as I’m at fictionmania to read stories, not snippets that would fit better into a cap format.
So while I’m happy to have people publish stories with our without images of that size to sites like fictionmania, I think I’ll avoid it myself. I’ll try to make up a signature for the end of my stories there that will include a link here, reminding them that I have just about 1000 posts of caps, obscuras, and stories here.
I’m still on the fence about that middle length, but your comments give me the confidence that the 3,000 word to 12,000 word short stories would find an appreciative audience there. I think I’ll post one up tonight just to see what the reaction will be. But for now, I’ll keep posting those types of obscuras/stories here too. If nothing else, the number of times those posts are viewed indicate people enjoy them (or maybe they just have to visit several times to read it all?). “Crashing Down” for instance has 7,238 page views as of now and it’s surrounded by posts that range from 4,500 to 6,000 page views.
I didn’t even really think of the responses to the longest stories, but I think you’re right. People are expecting that size and formatting there, so they’re more likely to respond and maybe even give some good criticism.
That does bring up another thought though… is Fictionmania the right site? I don’t want to post at multiple locations for now and I’d forgotten about TG storytime as I just don’t frequent there. Are there any other sites that I should consider?
And finally, there’s nothing to forgive. This is exactly the type of response I’m seeking out. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me!
You are gracious, Caitlyn. My thoughts are simply offered as constructive criticism that neither detracts nor adds to your already impressive creations.
DeleteAbout the websites...well, there is TG Storytime, but I don't frequent there; nor do I frequent Big Closet, another TG story site. I don't find them quite as accessible, and I like to be fully democratic when I visit TG sites. I go to FictionMania, for a simple but powerful reason: because their formatting is simple. Everything is in pure text (unless it is Story-with-Image), and most importantly, it is full-text searchable. When one happens to forget an author's name, or the major character, or something else, one can search for it on FM. That is a compelling reason, I think, for putting your stories on FictionMania. I would understand, certainly, if you are reluctant to put your shorter half-obscura-half-story posts, but I don't believe that you should under-sell yourself, Caitlyn! You are talented and deserve to be recognized as such, both for your writing and captions. You can create an account in FM and a unique signature that advertises your caption blog(s) in FM.
Finally, FM is definitely the right site for you, at least I feel this is true. Why? Because it is the go-to site for me, where stories are fun and the community is both friendly and constructively open, since it is so broad! And since I'm like you, Caitlyn (a naturally shy person who only found herself posting openly in TG), I feel like that's the place where you would want to be. You need not be afraid of hostile criticism. Your stories deserve to be out in the open. If you want to share your longer ones first, and then progressively your medium or shorter ones, that is fine. I would support you there all the way, however you finally decide to publicize your works. ^^
Caitlyn, I...um, this is unrelated, but may I call you "sister" or "sis?" You see, I am Asian, and in my culture, calling someone "brother" or "sister" is a kind of tender mark of affection. I hope that I don't offend you by asking this.
Karen,
DeleteIt's sounding like fictionmania then as it's well established, has the reading audience in place, and has good formatting. Plus, it's easy as I already have a couple stories there. And while I don’t expect it anywhere, I DO constantly look for criticism. Constructive criticism, helpful criticism, harsh criticism, even off handed criticism.
And I’d be honored to be called sister by you… but only if it’s a two-way street, sister. Sister. How could I possibly be offended by something so endearing!?
Thank you!
Yes, Caitlyn, please do call me "sister!" ^^ See, I grew up with a very kind and patient older brother, but I always wanted a sister. Someone I could *hug*. Caitlyn, you are so sweet, and I am happy to at last be able to call you sister! I am so glad that I could be of a little help about the writing questions. FictionMania is really a welcoming place, with a readership that is truly enthusiastic and would give you good feedback. Someday soon, maybe inspired by you, I might write a story for FM too (but for the immediate present, it's just a few caps that I can manage). ^.^
DeleteAhhh, Caitlyn, the yin to my yang in many ways, or however it is spelled!
ReplyDeleteI tend to skip any story on FM that is longer than 60k-70k unless it's by Belladonna. I'll also skip anything that is more than one part and isn't completed. Been burnt too many times by unfinished stories. I'll do the same thing with TG fiction on Amazon. If it's over 50 pages, I won't bother buying it. As it is, I'm often skimming through stories as I read them, especially if there is lots of detail in regards to sex scenes or descriptions of the clothing, etc ..
Yes, it's probably the undiagnosed ADD or ADHD or whatever, but I also don't want google et al knowing of my proclivities, so I only read TG on my computer screen OR the computer version of Kindle. Maybe if I did, I'd be more inclined to read a novel .. who am I kidding? I've read very little fiction since I graduated from High School! LOL
Size wise, define it however you want, more than a mouthful or ass-throbbing pain comes to mind LOL I am just happy that you are going to post them to free sites. Knowing your work and the amount of fans you have, you could certainly justify selling them on Amazon and/or starting a Patreon like many others have in the last few years. I also know that if you did that, there would be so much pressure to produce that it'd most likely kill your sometimes fragile creative desire to make content .. not stories you want to make, but content supplied to paying customers.
Maybe I shouldn't respond to these things at work which can make me cranky, but I knew I wouldn't be to respond otherwise for another few days. I'm probably an outlier in the grand scheme of things, but you know me. I'll give you three cents worth of opinion when you only wanted two! Hope this helps somewhat!
As I was writing this I was curious what your perspective would be. I assumed you were the opposite of me in this, that you read smaller stories. I’m curious though… are there any stories on fictionmania that are TOO short for you?
DeleteI do agree that there are types of descriptions that go to far. We all know that I like to go on and on about sex scenes. And when I give myself more space, more of that space is taken up with descriptive sex scenes. But I think if it like Anne Rice novels where she could go on and on and on and on about anything. Most of the descriptions she gave… of a house, of clothes, of a family’s history… I could care less about and I would tend to skip by it. But when she described in such minute detail the vampire biting and taking the blood of his/her victim, I was completely enraptured. So back to TG, I don’t go to much into the descriptions of clothes. I think peoples imaginations will do a good enough job filling in when I mention they’re wearing black lacy panties or a white semi-transparent blouse.
I do my reading on the computer as well. The only time it’s not on the computer screen is when I’m traveling, and then it’s on the iPad.
When it comes to free sites vs charging for the stories, I’d be lying if I didn’t consider it. I can’t ever monetize the caps here as they are all based on other people’s photography. But what exactly could I make from writing? I honestly don’t think it would be worth the possible exposure. I think someone would have to tell me how much they make before I would think it would be worthwhile. And yeah, you nailed the Patreon idea right on the first try… I would feel stifled to have all these PAYING people looking at me for content. Even if I set it up for a payment per product instead of the payment per month system, it would still be a list of people that want content and are patiently (or not so patiently) waiting for my muse to kick it in gear. I can’t keep consistent on Caps so I don’t have any confidence that I could keep consistent on writing. And, at the end of the day, I just want to create. I want to create stuff I like and see if others like it too.
I love that you respond to things like this. I want ALL the responses. I’d love it if there was someone out there reading this and responded that they think I should just give up on writing and focus back on caps. Maybe that’s what most people think, but they’re not talking and I can only listen to what people say.
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah. I don't get people who are setting up Patreon sites for TG captions. Unless you are using your own rendered pictures (which a few artists are) or paying models for shoots, I can't see how taking obvious unauthorized photos from the internet and adding text to them .. for profit .. would have any legit legal standard. Stories are a different thing, but Patreon seems much more interested in using people's real names than Amazon, so I'd much rather pay for books there, than sign up to be a consumer on Patreon for anything erotic, never mind TG oriented content.
DeleteAnd like you, I had thought about doing a pay thing for about 3 minutes. For the reasons above, and the pressure to push out content, the whole tiers thing, etc. I don't think I could monetize something that might make me lose the passion for this, and make me jaded. I'm already too cynical, and the last thing I need is to give myself an even more pompous view if myself and my creations. Just typing "creations" makes me squirm a bit, and not in the good way!